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The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view. Bjenks (talk · contribs) This user has contributed to the article. This user has declared a connection. (COI declared at User:Bjenks)

Hi,

I’m an insider on various issues in minor parties, particularily in the state of New South Wales. Upon discussion with current, former and members who are considering rejoining; The Australian Democrats, as it stands today is a continuation of the original party.

I understand, that there is a belief that the new AD is some sort of Judean People’s Front, this is not the case. Following the blowout at the 2007 election, the Australian Democrats remained as the same party until it merged with country minded in 2019.

• Disagreements Between Federal and QLD splinter

I do believe it is time to clear up the confusion over supposed conflict.

In 2014, the Queensland State Division Executives decided to leave the Federal Entity, and sever relationships with other state divisions. This was over disagreements with party direction and a “top down” leadership approach(As Discussed with Bjenks). The Queensland Division, as stated in their objection and on their website, wanted to be the Queensland Representatives of the Australian Democrats. The Queensland Division is a splinter group of the Australian Democrats. Despite this, many members in Queensland remained in the federal Australian Democrat Entity.

Essentially, the only group that declares itself as a federal continuation of the party is the current, registered party. However, at state level there are two parties that claim to represent Queensland; The Australian Democrats and Australian Democrats INC(The Splinter Group). Since the AEC objection was not upheld, it seems as though the splinter group is not a continuation of the original party.

Currently, the state of Queensland is represented by the Australian Democrats registered by the AEC.

• Status 2007-2016

The Party as it stands today, is a direct continuation of the party pre-2007. The NSW, QLD and VIC divisions retained the strongest membership levels, from 2007 onwards, however did experience significant losses following the 2007 defeat. The party itself, up until the loss of registration in 2016 did not change - the structure was still the same, as were the members. Excluding the QLD splinter group, there were no fractions(new groups) or factions within the party, in other states and nationally.

In 2016, a vote was brought to the table to officially dissolve the party; however it failed. Instead, members drafted a plan to rebuild the party. This would be a long process.

• Major Developments In 2018

There were major changes undertaken in 2018. The unfair(and unconstitutional) “top-down” approach was removed. The party members began to vote on new clauses and policy direction. Talks began between the Australian Democrats and “Country Minded” to establish a Country Democrats division and to increase membership. This was agreed upon.

There were significant developments with membership in 2018, with many members rejoining.

• 2019 Australian Democrats

In 2019, the Australian Democrats really started the process of rebuilding.

The members voted on, and agreed to a new constitution. The new constitution secured the “bottom-up” grassroots movement that was present in the party prior to 1993.

The merger with country minded did not have a significant impact on the constitutional change, where the only impact was the new country division, the country democrats.

The constitutional change reflected changes with technology - where all new changes to policy, direction or leadership are to be voted on by members online. The change means that changes to policy and leadership must go through the members first.

The Democrats stood a total of 7 candidates(6 senate and 1 house) and did not expect to win any seats. The campaign was very limited, and the party reregistered 4 days before the election.The primary objective was to spread the message and alert old members. This was successful, with a large increase in membership following the election.

Many members that rejoined were pleased to see the Party back, and favoured the return to the “bottom-up” democracy. The party as it stands today is very stable.

• Conclusion

The Australian Democrats are a united party. There was always a continuation in membership and functionality since 2007. The party never “stopped” then “restarted” as it was always there, as were the people. Just because it was “unregistered” does not mean it did not exist.

For example, the NSW State Division(this can apply with all others, ex QLD) retained membership and had constant meetings pre-2007 and still up to now. The executives in the party were there before, and since the early 2000’s and were elected by the membership. There are a few new, young people that have signed up since 2007. There were no “splits” or fractures - there was only one united party that continued to function(QLD was the exception, as discussed earlier). Again, just to reiterate the only “separation” or “fracture” occurred with a splinter group in Queensland.

The party is preparing for the next federal and state elections, with a serious plan(as seen by their policy frameworks) and a united team.

I really do hope that helped. I’m happy to answer any questions. If you want to know anything about other minor parties in NSW, just ask.

Thank you all for your contributions, and the talk discussions too. ThePolitix (talk) 11:38, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify, the current AD is an official continuation of the party before 2019, as voted on by the members. The merger was really more of a creation of a new division than anything else. Personally, I would recommend that someone(I’d be happy to) rename the “Country Minded” page to “Country Democrats.” ThePolitix (talk) 11:41, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

On a third note, I believe that the party is reverting to the participatory democracy it was prior to 1993, many members from that time in particular have rejoined and those members in particular have made major contributions to the party as of late. Personally, I’m not too sure what occurred in 1993 but am happy to see that the old “bottom-up” democracy has been restored. ThePolitix (talk) 12:08, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Country Democrats would need to be a sourced subsection of this page. CountryMinded was notable due to it being a political party, most party factions aren't notable unless it has substantial coverage. Catiline52 (talk) 12:12, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

On the face of it, these statements (though they await due verification) provide a good indication that genuine and positive renewal is taking place and that the Australian Democrats party is at last owning and confronting its past disastrous leadership mistakes—and is thus creating a possibility of return to the principles espoused by its founding members. Many thanks to both of the above correspondents. I have recent personal knowledge of some original members in my state of WA who have retained their membership (much to my surprise} through and beyond the altercations of 1993 and the GST crisis. A return to the foundation principles may at last offer the electorate a realistic option of ending the parliamentary and governmental chaos of the past two decades. The country division, if properly constituted, is an excellent concept. It is to be hoped that the Queensland division instituted by Macklin et al can be reintegrated though, IMHO, the conduct of its former senators Kernot, Woodley and Cherry will have to be recognised as generally destructive to the party's principles. Bjenks (talk) 15:44, 8 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. In regards to the country democrats question, I agree with Cataline52 in that we should have a sourced sub-section on the page. I’m happy to work on it. Thanks, once again. ThePolitix (talk) 05:07, 9 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Update: QLD Democrats seem to have a minimal presence, apart from sporadic social media posts. No updates to the website since 2017 apart. The only event was an objection, which wasn’t sustained. QLD Democrats seem to have either “rejoined,”or “disbanded.” Unsure who the current leader/executive is, if there are any. So as this, decided to delete the header(that I believe I may have suggested) seeing as the division is quite irrelevant at this stage, but is indeed important to the history of the party in QLD. That aside, the AD’s seem to be doing very well from what I’ve heard. Thank you my fellow editors!!! (P.s. unsure if you guys cover US Politics pages, they may need some updating) ThePolitix (talk) 12:48, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. thanks for the civility, really appreciate the discussion on this talk page. Have been looking at Venezuelan Politics pages and the Wikipedia edit wars even have their own Wikipedia page... P.S. Edit wars really suck. ThePolitix (talk) 12:51, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, just as clarification - I was wrong about the Queensland Division. The Incorporated entity in Queensland actually has no connection with the current party. The old Queensland Democrats division deregistered a while back, and some opportunistic ex-Dems took the name. There was always a Queensland division, however the “incorporated” official division was cancelled for whatever reasons - and that can be seen on the register of companies.

There is a Queensland division, and they have been with the party since before this renegade group formed. Again, I’m not too sure around the circumstances of the registration of the new entity - but do know that the party has limited knowledge of where they came from - apart from the fact that they were ex-Dems.

Sorry, just spoke to some people who I know about it. Queensland Division INC is not connected to the former Queensland Division. A Queensland Division continues to operate in the Democrat’s, with many of the same people preceding the renegades registration.

No ex-parliamentarians are affiliated with the “renegade grouplet.” ThePolitix (talk) 08:20, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry just to clarify; the Queensland Division INC is NOT a continuation of the party in Queensland. The people who were on the state executive in 2013/14 are still in the official AD’s or have left since then. There is an official Queensland Division but it is not that group. The AEC further rejected “Queensland Division Inc’s” objection to party registration.

So once again; the Queensland Division Inc. has no official link to it’s claimed predecessor and is not a continuation of the Queensland Division’s initial entity, as can be seen in the registration of companies.

Sorry, I got the constitution thing mixed up with something else.

Thanks!! ThePolitix (talk) 08:25, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In a series of edits by IP editor 222.164.212.168 (talk) has suggested changes which imho require some discussion. and I reverted, requesting the editor to seek consensus on this page. The questionable edits were:

• Proposed link to Aaya Ram Gaya Ram
• change in subhead from "1986: Foundation and Don Chipp's leadership" to "1977–1986: Foundation under Don Chipp's leadership and "keep the bastards honest" approach"
• KTBH expanded content
• Changed emphasis for KTBE

Apparently, the changes are intended to back up a "See also' link to this article inserted by the IP editor in another recently edited article, Aaya Ram Gaya Ram. The relevance of that article to Australian Democrats anD/or to Don Chipp is questionable. "Keep the bastards honest" was a popular electoral slogan but in no way a key principle of the Democrats.

My invitation to discuss the edits was responded to by counter-reversion, followed by an extraordinary attack on me at my talk page. I'm not into edit wars and have a declared personal and professional interest (up top), so must leave it to the group to sort this out. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 08:18, 13 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The infobox insertion of Lyn Allison as new president seems premature as there is no verification, not even on the party website. Bjenks (talk) 17:01, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I now see the website announcement and update in Allison's WP article. Maybe somewhat notable, but not yet noted by news media. I'd like to know whether the old Queensland Democrats will be brought back in or continue to use the AD name independently. Bjenks (talk) 04:11, 24 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting question indeed! BTW, I've just made a minor edit regarding the history of the registration process earlier this year. The earlier entry refered to the "former" Queensland Division. Now, it could well be correct that the Qld Division has folded, but I think that in the absence of any reliable source for this, which is required under Wikipedia policies, perhaps it is prudent and simplest to refer to the Australian Democrats (Queensland Division). Sue2016 (talk) 01:20, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we'd be implying the former Qld Division has folded but finding some way to explain that it's the incorporated continuity of the party as deregistered in 2016. The thing is that, as there's no real evidence that the "new" Democrats have a Qld branch (they didn't run any candidates at the election and Google doesn't turn up anything besides the contact person on the website) and the "old" Qld Democrats have are an incorporated body with a clear and ongoing internet presence at least, I don't know that we need to get into it yet. The 2020 state election might clear up this issue a good bit if the ECQ has to make a decision between competing claimants to the name. The Drover's Wife (talk) 01:54, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi sorry for the late note, the Queensland Democrats actually have no connection with the party. The Queensland division deregistered and some opportunistic ex-Dems went in and took the name. A Queensland division does exist; and that’s part of the main party. The Queensland democrats incorporated one has no real connection with the party. ThePolitix (talk) 08:13, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the improper indentation, forgot the syntax unfortunately. There are some rumours that the renegade grouplet in Queensland has folded. Just to clarify, I was incorrect in prior stating that there was an official link with this grouplet and the preceding QLD Democrats Division - there isn’t one. The Queensland Division’s company registration must have been cancelled at some stage, then this renegade group must have “stolen the name.” There are no talks between the parties - and there are a couple hundred members in the Official Queensland Division that is affiliated with the registered party. Once again, sorry about getting it wrong earlier. QLD Democrat’s have no official link to the former /co current official QLD Division apart from the fact that they were established by some disgruntled ex-members 6-7 years ago. Hope that helps!! ThePolitix (talk) 08:33, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think this best sums it up - if you look up the register of businesses, you will notice that this division is not the same entity as the Queensland Democrat’s from before. It was created in 2013 or 2014 and has no official connection with the main party. Hope that helps, and sorry for saying otherwise earlier - I was misinformed. ThePolitix (talk) 08:39, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Still hard to know what to do about it given the lack of reliable sources - until the AEC or ECQ has to arbitrate the issue we're a bit in the dark. The Drover's Wife (talk) 08:41, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I would say in a couple of months/ in the coming year there may be a development of sorts. If the official Queensland Division regains state membership - that’s probably our best verifier. The main “hard evidence” that exists is this - https://abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View?abn=61842409808 <- the current grouplet.

The official incorporated association there from before-> https://abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View?abn=95135496452 ThePolitix (talk) 08:47, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As you can see, the Queensland Democrats INC are not a continuation, rather a new registration filed in 2018. ThePolitix (talk) 08:48, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Drover's Wife:, @ThePolitix: I remain unconvinced that the Continuity Australian Democrats are notable without seats in any state or federal parliament and with a share of the national vote comparable to those British leftist grouplets that Monty Python skewered so well. PAustin4thApril1980 (talk) 08:51, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Our opinions about their notability aren't really relevant in this context, where no one is advocating that they have their own article, and the extent to which they need to be referenced here in their current form (if at all) fundamentally hinges on these questions of verifiability. The Drover's Wife (talk) 08:56, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So what is ThePolitix going to do about the Queensland Democrats article which was started in 2012 and claims incorporation in 2011 and legitimacy since 1977? How is the general reader to distinguish one "grouplet" from another? Bjenks (talk) 05:22, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My search at ASIC indicates that Australian Democrats (Queensland Division) Incorporated is one of five registered AD entities (Regn date 29/5/1996). However, I was unable to find it in the Queensland register of associations. Bjenks (talk) 06:07, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The latest intriguing attempt to swing the Australian Democrats towards centre-left needs to be assessed with caution. It depends on a citation from John Warhurst (1997): "...until their disastrous internal split, the centre-left Democrats had experienced more than 20 years of balance of power politics and policy-making in the Senate." At that time it might have been argued that leader Cheryl Kernot's literal love affair with Labor was leftist or that successor Meg Lees support for Howard's GST was rightist. However the avowed centrism of the party cannot be disputed since it was from the start enshrined in the AD constitution. It used to be common for left-wingers to taint the Dems as right-wing simply because Don Chipp had switched allegiance from the Liberals. Such taunts are derived more from the mutant politics of the day than from any real truth and I'm sure the same applies to present-day attempts to attach a left-wing smear to the party and its people. However, the present "Australian Democrats" party seems to be a very different kettle of fish than the betrayed organisation of 1997, so we should let its people reveal themselves to reasonable and reliable current reporters instead of depending on far-gone 1997 ideas. Bjenks (talk) 05:05, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I largely agree. I left it there because there were periods where it clearly was, even though it was better categorised overall across its history as a centrist party. The Drover's Wife (talk) 18:45, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure why designations other than Centrist can't be applied. There was a period Powell where the Queensland Democrats were working with several socialist orgs and funding Green Left Weekly. If there are sources to say it was centrist, and sources to say it's centre-left, surely "Centre to centre-left" could be applied? Catiline52 (talk) 09:58, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You're offering a suggestion that variable POV can apply here, as I warned against above. That's not OK for WP, though may be fair game for canvassing in day-to-day media. I eventually found your GLW link to the interesting 1997 article by John Boyle which alludes to an AD "left tack" in "early 1990s" Brisbane City Council elections. OK, I believe every party has mavericks and behavioural variations, but rarely to a degree that can affect their encyclopedic ratings. Bjenks (talk) 03:07, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that it's just mavericks: the left-wing of the Democrats has always had people who were centre-left, with the party basically being that when they were in the ascendancy in any given jurisdiction. I still agree with you overall (using multiple labels confuses people who don't realise it was only in specific periods, and centrist is a better one-word summation of their general stance), but it's not for no reason that a bunch of elected Democrats wound up in the Greens (and not necessarily on their right flank either). The Drover's Wife (talk) 07:50, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That "bunch" of AD senators who moved toward the Greens was in fact limited to two or three out of 26. Of them, Janet Powell was in pre-AD days a leading anti-nuke camapaigner and Coulter was always a Greens fan. Jean Jenkins remained loyal to the party for 10 years after expulsion before joining the Greens. Norm Sanders had strong Greens sympathies but went back to an academic career. Unless you have better information, none of the others had any connection at all with the Greens. Anyway, in those early days the fledgling Greens were quite different to today's more purposeful lot. Bjenks (talk) 16:15, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In connection with the vanishing relevance of the reconstituted group, it can be recorded that "Australian Democrats" have contested NO House of Reps seats and only five Senate seats. In four of those seats, about one-fortieth (0.025%) of a quota was polled in first preferences. In the other state (Victoria), the result was 0.0526% --a little better than one-twentieth of a quota. Media recognition was almost non-existent, although The Guardian Aust included them in a list of "more than 30 minor and micro parties" and the Fin Review opined that the Teal Independents were "a reheated version of the now defunct Australian Democrats". Bjenks (talk) 03:35, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Continuing progress of the Senate count in terms of comparative quotas is viewable here. Bjenks (talk) 04:16, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@ IP editor 31.94.31.216. One of the problems with this edit is its self-sourcing to the website of the [rebirthed] Australian Democrats, a group which has yet to establish its notability. This surely stamps the edit as soapboxing. Then, the edit is placed in the historical context of the long-defeated parliamentary ADs where an independent reliable source would be more appropriate. It's a salutory reminder of how this article is being systematically tweaked to diminish important historical content in favour of promoting a separately constituted entty with very tenuous links to the famous old party which kept the bastards honest in Canberra. Bjenks (talk) 02:42, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]